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 Naza Ria - Convert to NGV (Dual-Fuel)
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nbmn
Starting NGV Member

NGV:Yes
Since:May 2007
NAZA
Ria 2.5V6
(Fuel Injection)

Malaysia

3 Posts

Posted - 19/10/2007 :  11:02:46 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Franktee
Was starting a problem before u change your plug?

nazman

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franktee
Average Member

NGV:Yes
Since:Oct 2007
Proton
Wira 1.5 GLM
(Fuel Injection)

Malaysia

239 Posts

Posted - 21/10/2007 :  11:26:13 PM  Show Profile  Visit franktee's Homepage  Reply with Quote
No problem starting even before plug change.

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carszone
New Member

NGV:Planning to install soon
(Fuel Injection)

Malaysia

29 Posts

Posted - 22/10/2007 :  4:26:32 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Hi,
I also using Naza Ria NGV (4 yrs old car) but my millage is showing much lesser then you. Sure you can get 6sen / KM? My car is is running at RM0.085/km highway and 0.095/km town drive/penang bridge jamm. I am using Mixer + 80L China made fibre tank (total installation cost RM4900).

Anyway, with the 0.095/km is very much satisfied me already. I just came back from a trip Penang - KL - Genting - Penang during Raya holiday. Total 750KM and my Petrol + Gas expensas is only RM130.00!!! This is the same amount I spent using Waja 1.6 previousely...Thanks to NGV!


Regards,
CK
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franktee
Average Member

NGV:Yes
Since:Oct 2007
Proton
Wira 1.5 GLM
(Fuel Injection)

Malaysia

239 Posts

Posted - 22/10/2007 :  6:23:35 PM  Show Profile  Visit franktee's Homepage  Reply with Quote
Like I said earlier, my conversion to NGV is quite recent. The data I have is pretty limited but it seems to point me to that kind of mileage i have obtained. By the way, does your car have a choker? Someone gave me the impression that there has to be some form of choker in my Ria if I'm using the mixer system, but I don't think that there is one in mine. Could the difference between your and my mileage be due to the choker? I wonder?

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fongch
New Member

NGV:Gathering information
Nissan
1.6
(Fuel Injection)

Malaysia

25 Posts

Posted - 04/11/2007 :  9:17:50 PM  Show Profile  Send fongch a Yahoo! Message  Reply with Quote
Hi carszone,
How the performance for your Naza Ria go to Genting ?
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carszone
New Member

NGV:Planning to install soon
(Fuel Injection)

Malaysia

29 Posts

Posted - 05/11/2007 :  11:39:18 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Hi,
Sorryla friend, I got no chance to try NGV in climbing Genting Highland. I missed Batu Cave Petronas cause my friend tech me to use Setapak road from KL town. So by the time I reach kaki bukit, my gas finished already. However, even using Petrol (with 6 people inside) I can feel it very difficult to go up to Genting!
Maybe other members can share if they tried to go up Genting with NGV. Thanks.


Regards,
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franktee
Average Member

NGV:Yes
Since:Oct 2007
Proton
Wira 1.5 GLM
(Fuel Injection)

Malaysia

239 Posts

Posted - 27/11/2007 :  8:49:51 PM  Show Profile  Visit franktee's Homepage  Reply with Quote
Hi friends,
My installer has finally resolved my car stalling problem.
I tried to work out my Naza Ria mileage using the Mileage Tracking & ROI spreadsheet found on this forum and arrived at 8.4 sen/km (total distance travelled was 1900 km on Rm160.40 of natural gas).
Do you think I'm getting good mileage, considering that I'm using a mixer system and I don't have T.A.P. fitted? Please share the kind of mileage you are getting with your Naza Ria.
Would fitting the T.A.P. help improve my mileage, performance, response and power of my Naza Ria? How much would installing it probably cost?

Best Regards,
Frank

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clkong
Advanced Member

NGV:Yes
NAZA
Ria
(Fuel Injection)

Malaysia

695 Posts

Posted - 29/11/2007 :  12:13:23 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Franktee, You should install TAP due to higher octane of the NGV. NGV burn slower than petrol so you need TAP to burn the gas faster. Ask you installer to install one for you. Is not that expensive but I really don't understand why some of the installer refuse to install for their customer. For my Nissan Serena, I'm getting about 70% saving compare to petrol. On Highway, i'm get about 6 cent/km but for town driving it can reach up to 9 cent/km. How much per KM if you drive in petrol?
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franktee
Average Member

NGV:Yes
Since:Oct 2007
Proton
Wira 1.5 GLM
(Fuel Injection)

Malaysia

239 Posts

Posted - 01/01/2008 :  10:14:50 AM  Show Profile  Visit franktee's Homepage  Reply with Quote
I just installed TAP (GN Argentine make) on my mixer-type (GN Argentine make) Ria that was running fine. The car initially runs smoothly, later splutters and stalls. Can any of the experts offer their opinion as to what could be the cause?

Get paid by US Market Research company for testing websites & giving short opinion. Earn up to USD1,000/mth working 1-10 hrs weekly.
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kjlee
Average Member

NGV:Yes
Since:Oct 2005
Toyota
corona 2.0 gli (1993)
(Fuel Injection)

Malaysia

138 Posts

Posted - 01/01/2008 :  2:53:20 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
if the problem is due to tap installation. 2 possible reasons. 1. TAP faulty (which is unlikely if it it new). 2. installation done wrongly - likely to be installation not done correctly.

I would suggest that you get the wiring diagram for the GN TAP. ask from installer or may try find from GN website. Make sure it is wired to the correct devices eg TPS, MAP/MAF etc. then, make sure that it is wired to the correct wires on the devices. Do NOT assume that your installer has done your TAP installation correctly.

hope the above helps.
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tuxedotux
Starting NGV Member

NGV:Yes
Since:Dec 2006
Proton
Wira 1.5
(Fuel Injection)

Malaysia

19 Posts

Posted - 18/02/2008 :  9:12:41 PM  Show Profile  Click to see tuxedotux's MSN Messenger address  Reply with Quote
Is the TAP only for carburator or injection Engine??
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Ria
Starting NGV Member

NGV:Yes
Since:Oct 2007
NAZA
ria
(Fuel Injection)

Malaysia

6 Posts

Posted - 29/02/2008 :  4:19:34 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Dear Experts,
I have a Ria fitted with a mixer system. The engine stalls every time the traffic is slow moving. Driving on gas becomes so dangerous because of this frequent, sudden and no-warning-stalling that I switch to petrol whenever the traffic is crawling to avoid getting involved in an accident. My installer thinks it's an air-flow problem but so far, he's not been able to solve the problem.

I checked for a second opinion. Another installer adviced that it could be the spark plug or the spark plug cable. I told him I just changed the spark plugs in Jan 2008. He asked me what kind of plugs I used. I told him Kia original. He told me to try to get them replaced with Bosch "4-legged" plugs.
I asked him whether my mixer could be the problem. He appears confident that it's not the mixer that is the problem because when he revved the rpm up, everything appeared normal??? I'm not sure what he meant by that because when he revved up the engine, there was loud backfiring.
Any expert opinion on type & model of spark-plugs? Spark-plug gap adjustments? Please share. Thanks.
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hijau
Junior NGV Member

NGV:Yes
Since:Sep 2004
Proton
Iswara 1.5
(Carburetor)

Malaysia

54 Posts

Posted - 01/03/2008 :  12:47:33 PM  Show Profile  Visit hijau's Homepage  Click to see hijau's MSN Messenger address  Reply with Quote
Dear Ria,

Here is the pronosis for your existing problems:

1. Engine Stalling (or unstable engine speed/idle)

Firstly, engine stalling can be the result of poor tuning, where the installer was not able to calibrate the system with the correct air-fuel ratio. The Mixer is not mixing in the correct amount of Gas with the incoming air from the airfilter. To resolve this, it requires a more precise tuning, perhaps using a tachometer (RPM tool) or a Gas analyzer (in examining the exhaust gas for correct air-fuel mixture). 'Hear & Tune' method may not be the most scientific and accurate approach, but it is commonly used. This may be your problem cause.

Secondly, engine stalling can be caused by poor Mixer design. It is very common that Naza Ria mixers are being produced by many CNC company. Their engineering specifications are currently based on 'Copy & Lathe', mostly by visual copying. Only one company is based on Reverse Engineering but the mixers are undergoing testing. It is not available for market purchases at this moment. Poor mixer leads to poor Mixing, incorrect air-fuel ratio and can be very difficult to tune correctly. Perhaps, you also need to know that you are operating on a Gas Carburetor when you are in Gas mode, while petrol will be fully electronic-controlled. Thus, your Naza Ria needs a good mixer (good gas carburetor) to maintain optimal working conditions, like for stable engine and power output.

As per stalling at nearing traffic light (slowing down fast), it indicates to a poor mixer (gas carburetion). The venturi effect (please search the community for this key word) is rather unstable. It is intermittent failing to response to the driver's pedal demand and resulting to stalling. It can be hard to start after engine stalling prematurely. Step on your pedal in a quick-step (fast and hard acceleration), and observe the engine response. If there is a little delay, the mixer is likely to be weak on venturi-effect.


2. Backfire
Backfire is divided into two:

Engine Backfire is commonly the cause of leakage of high voltage (a poor plug cable) where spark jumps of the broken plug cable and shorting at the engine block. Simultaneously, the leakage leads to zero spark ignition on the cylinder, and a single jerking of the engine. If you count from 1 to 4, you will notice a pattern of engine jerk, like 1 - no, 2-no, 3-yes, 4-no jerk. It is appropriately every count on 3 there is a jerk. Your plug cable is leaking, and prematurely igniting the pre-charged carbureted gas in your engine (from the mixer onwards).

Backfire on Exhaust indicates a poor tuning, with unburned gas accumulating at the catalytic converter. At a optimum volume, it explodes giving away a loud sound. Another sign of poor tuning is present.


To be certain, kindly conduct the above test methods. Go back to your installer to have repair, or conduct this test with them.


Edited by - hijau on 01/03/2008 12:54:47 PM
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Ria
Starting NGV Member

NGV:Yes
Since:Oct 2007
NAZA
ria
(Fuel Injection)

Malaysia

6 Posts

Posted - 01/03/2008 :  5:36:08 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Dear Hijau,
Thanks 4 ur prognosis. I've gone to my installer many times. I don't think going back to him would be of any help. If it's not convenient to quote contact numbers here, please PM me the contact numbers of installers / mechanics in Klang/Shah Alam/Puchong area who would probably have the necessary equipment to calibrate and tune up my NGV-system so that I would get the right air-fuel mixture. What would be the market price for doing so?
I don't want to simply change things and later find out that it was not exactly the cause of my problems. I prefer to go through a process of elimination. Trying out the least drastic measures first and then, when that doesn't work, trying out something more drastic.
What are the sure identifying signs or put it another way, diagnostic signals that my mixer is causing the problem. I mean, I don't want to simply change my mixer, if I'm not sure that it is the culprit.
I noticed one thing, the backfiring is loud and that it is occurring close to the air-cleaner-box. I also noticed that my car doesn't stall when I drive very fast and suddenly brake as is in the case of some of our fellow forummers. I wonder what that tells you. Please share with me what signs and symptoms to look out for and take notice of that would help diagnose the source(s) of my problems. Thanks.
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Ria
Starting NGV Member

NGV:Yes
Since:Oct 2007
NAZA
ria
(Fuel Injection)

Malaysia

6 Posts

Posted - 03/03/2008 :  4:07:36 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I got a shock when when I opened my bonnet today. My air-cleaner-box top was ripped open. I suspect that it was the backfiring that caused it. Can anybody help to diagnose what is the probable cause?
Another thing I noticed was that I have to top up my expansion tank water by about 1 cm every 3-4 days.
Please advise where I can probably go for help.
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Ria
Starting NGV Member

NGV:Yes
Since:Oct 2007
NAZA
ria
(Fuel Injection)

Malaysia

6 Posts

Posted - 06/03/2008 :  8:17:56 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Can some kind soul direct me where to go for help? Yesterday, I met someone with a Kia Carnival fitted with a mixer-system and asked him for his installer's contact no. His Puchong installer was kind enough to re-tune my car for Rm10.00. My car no longer stalls but, it still backfires. The backfiring is so powerful, it rips up my air-cleaner-box. This is my second air-cleaner box. It costs Rm350 and installing it costs Rm50. After removing & repairing my air-cleaner-box myself with plastic cement, I think I no longer need to spend the Rm50. My second air-cleaner box has been ripped thrice. I'm not sure it will survive a fourth backfire.
I got someone with a Hanatech diagnostic kit to check my car. He said that on petrol, my car's diagnostics looks quite normal, but on NGV, he has no idea how the readings should read??? Can someone probably give me the 'normal' NGV readings? Could those with this kind of experience direct me to where I can go for help. Any contact around Klang, Shah Alam, Subang Jaya, Puchong would be appreciated.
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hijau
Junior NGV Member

NGV:Yes
Since:Sep 2004
Proton
Iswara 1.5
(Carburetor)

Malaysia

54 Posts

Posted - 06/03/2008 :  10:50:50 PM  Show Profile  Visit hijau's Homepage  Click to see hijau's MSN Messenger address  Reply with Quote
Dear Ria,

Based on your description, your problem can be traced to two areas.

Mixer:
The mixer should be a Malaysian Boleh type, with poor precise and inaccurate design. This will lead to engine stalling frequently.

Spark Plug Cable:
Your backfire is likely the result of high-voltage leakage in your spark plug cables. Since you are using mixer-type, your entire engine is filled with pre-charged (or pre-mixed) fuel. Any leakage of high voltage from your plug cable can lead to a premature explosion on the fuel. This happens when your plug cable is re-directing the high voltage to the engine block (or spark jump to the engine metal body) via the leakage point (a break in the cable). Thus, you need to remove all the plug cables and check the cables in detail. Bend the cable in sections to a pretty extreme angle to reveal any cracks.


If the backfire continues, you will also experience engine damage, like burnt out sensor in the engine, such as MAP, MAF & etc. Kindly have your problem rectified as soon as possible. Have your plug cable changed to ORIGINAL KIA and this can be costly.drx



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Ria
Starting NGV Member

NGV:Yes
Since:Oct 2007
NAZA
ria
(Fuel Injection)

Malaysia

6 Posts

Posted - 10/03/2008 :  11:01:56 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Thanks for all the advise received so far. After re-tuning, I don't suffer from backfire that often any more. The trouble is the car seems so heavy and refuses to accelerate. Those behind me lose patience with me at the traffic lights.
I have decided to replace the spark-plug cables but I'm unsure whether I should change my spark plugs. They are Kia originals changed in mid-October last year. I really don't feel like changing my plugs because they are supposed to last up to 100,000 km and I have only probably used them for 6,000 km. Someone mentioned about adjusting the spark-plug gap. Since I'm changing the spark-plug cables, I thought I might as well adjust the spark-plug gap. The trouble is I don't know what the gap should be for my Naza Ria. Can anyone with experience advise?
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Ria
Starting NGV Member

NGV:Yes
Since:Oct 2007
NAZA
ria
(Fuel Injection)

Malaysia

6 Posts

Posted - 14/03/2008 :  11:44:42 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I remember reading somewhere that reducing my spark plug gap to something between 0.6-0.8mm may help with my problem. Can anyone confirm this? Look's like I'm all alone in this matter, I've been doing a soliloquy here...
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tarzan
Starting NGV Member

NGV:Gathering information
NAZA
Ria
(Fuel Injection)

Malaysia

1 Posts

Posted - 16/03/2008 :  5:09:34 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Ria

I got a shock when when I opened my bonnet today. My air-cleaner-box top was ripped open. I suspect that it was the backfiring that caused it. Can anybody help to diagnose what is the probable cause?
Another thing I noticed was that I have to top up my expansion tank water by about 1 cm every 3-4 days.
Please advise where I can probably go for help.



my friend,
if that thing happen to your naza ria, suggest check with your SC. It has no relation with the NGV kit, probably.

we @ ria-family.com, are more than happy to assist you
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jcdin74
Starting NGV Member

NGV:Planning to install soon
NAZA
Ria
(Fuel Injection)

Malaysia

1 Posts

Posted - 06/06/2008 :  3:25:06 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Hi,

I'm new in this forum and just registered as a member. I owned a Naza Ria and is planning to convert it to NGV. I also understand the risks involved but with the current petrol price, I feel that it is worth the money to convert but just need to compromise with the pro and cons.

Need advise if there is any reliable NGV installer in JB and the estimated cost which is suitable for the Nazaria.....

You can also email to me at jcdin74@hotmail.com or contact me at 019-7519134.

Thanks a lot.

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cpchin
Senior NGV Member

NGV:Yes
Since:Jun 2008
NAZA
RIA 2.5
(Fuel Injection)

Malaysia

368 Posts

Posted - 25/06/2008 :  8:58:19 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I believe, basically to run Naza smoothly, there are two variable i.e. gas flow and air flow.

Naza is EFI car, but after fixing Mixer system it becomes a carburetor car.
In carburetor, you can adjust the air inflow and petrol intake manually. But EFI car has no carburetor.

The gas flow can be control by adjusting the gas knot between the regulator and the mixer just below the air intake.
Be brave, try out the gas flow yourself ( I did that many times until I got the optimum level).

I have self-invented an air choker by placing a piece of plastic at the air-intake couple with an control unit ( just a screw).

Now my Naza runs like an petrol car, no stalling and responsive.

If you need picture of the air choker, please email me at cat926e@streamyx.com

Mine is purely GN mixer system without AES and TAP. All manual control.

Chin
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Goh Hock Lai
Starting NGV Member

NGV:Planning to install soon
KIA
Carnival 2.5 V6
(Fuel Injection)

Malaysia

1 Posts

Posted - 28/10/2008 :  1:58:12 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Hi there,

..i m new at this forum n really considering to convert my Kia Carnival to NGV. How about a 2nd hand ngv kit? where to find it in KL or JB area and what is the cost? is it safe n reliable? ..pls advise ..

Thanks alot

quote:
Originally posted by fongch

I also having this plan, hope somebody can share your experience
Thanks


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cpchin
Senior NGV Member

NGV:Yes
Since:Jun 2008
NAZA
RIA 2.5
(Fuel Injection)

Malaysia

368 Posts

Posted - 29/10/2008 :  11:27:20 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
GHL,

If I were you I will go for the new kits instead of the used one.

You will bound to face technical problems after installation.
After several fine tunings, then only your car can run smoothly.

This is my personal experience with mixer system.

Now my car runs beautifully.
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leongwei
Starting NGV Member

NGV:Yes
Since:Oct 2008
Nissan
X Trial 2.0
(Fuel Injection)

Malaysia

24 Posts

Posted - 04/11/2008 :  9:11:55 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by franktee

So far the problem is quite resolved. The problem just disappeared by itself. I think the car adjusted by itself or because I changed my spark-plugs. Phew, the plugs sure are costly, Rm264, and my mechanic charged me Rm50 for changing the plugs.
The Mixer conversion costs me Rm5,200 complete with a 70 L composite Chinese-make tank. As for the mileage, I do not have sufficient data to ascertain it yet.
Looks like I'm not allowed to let you know where I did my conversion in this forum. However, should you still feel you want to know, you can privately email me.
Did you guys have any difficulty in getting your 25% discount on your road-tax for your conversion to NGV?
Best Regards,



Hi Frank,
No problem at Butterworth. Just pay RM40 produce your NGV certificates at Puspakom and when certifified take to JPJ and submit for endorsement. It's FOC. They will immediately update to petrol/NGV and the road tax reduced written down. No problem.
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leongwei
Starting NGV Member

NGV:Yes
Since:Oct 2008
Nissan
X Trial 2.0
(Fuel Injection)

Malaysia

24 Posts

Posted - 04/11/2008 :  9:31:56 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Ria

I remember reading somewhere that reducing my spark plug gap to something between 0.6-0.8mm may help with my problem. Can anyone confirm this? Look's like I'm all alone in this matter, I've been doing a soliloquy here...


Hi Ria,
MY installer have advised me to use NGK BKR5EYA-11 for Rias.About 70/set. I have had this problems when i got my car installed with sequential. Jerking,no power,engine stalled at traffic light. Have to send back to installer 3 times to get it corrected. To day is the third time i sent for tunning and so far all this corrected. I believe we need to season it and believe it will get better each day.Hope for the best.
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